The curious case of the Opel Vivaro transmission

"Bandit - destroyed his car" (notbandit) 06/21/2016 at 13:32 • Filed to: None

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Driving around in one of these today I did something I didn’t think was possible. I was able to start from a dead stop, clutch out then shift into first and let it idle along, then shift into second and let it idle along, shift into third and let it idle along, and then shift into fourth and let it idle along without ever touching the gas pedal. I ran out of parking lot before I could grab 5th. Can you do this in all manual cars? I was in an Opel Vivaro with the ridiculously underpowered diesel engine and 6 speed manual.

Cé hé sin > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:38

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Diesels do that. It’s one reason why they’re popular as driving school cars as learners find it easier to get going. My father has a diesel Focus and you can do hill starts on quite steep inclines without having to use the accelerator.

Nibbles > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:39

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Yup. As long as you don’t bog / stall it, you can idle through the gears in any manny tranny

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:39

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Yeah, those are pretty forgiving things, they are underpowered, but have loads of torque. I once drove one using nothing but my left foot to operate the clutch and the throttle, and it didn’t even die on me on an incline.

Also have I misread, or are you saying you shifted without using the clutch? Because then you probably just made use of the synchromeshes while shifting, combined with the high amount of torque, this could work, probably, for a shot amount of time before the synchros are worn.

Bandit - destroyed his car > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 06/21/2016 at 13:40

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No, you read it right. I used the clutch but was surprised the gas pedal was optional.

Cé hé sin > Nibbles 06/21/2016 at 13:42

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You can do so in a petrol vehicle only if you’re very careful with the clutch though and you’ll get protests if you try it in third or more.

On a diesel you can just engage the clutch much as you would do if you were using the accelerator.

thebigbossyboss > Cé hé sin 06/21/2016 at 13:44

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Lol I have never been able to do that in anything beyond gear 2.

Nibbles > Cé hé sin 06/21/2016 at 13:44

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I used to do this back in high school in my old petrol 22-RTE equipped Toyota pickup. It AMAZED my schoolmates. I could start off in 3rd, idle up to 5th and be cruising at a blaring 22MPH without ever touching the gas!

Steve in Manhattan > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:44

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Might the idle speed be set too high?

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:45

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Yeah, these things are like our pickup trucks, that’s why they have loads of torque, because that makes them great for towing trailers. Almost every builder(and other people having tools for the job) either drive this, the Renault version of this, a VW Transporter, a Ford Transit or some other kind of van.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:46

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Large, v8 engines are usually the best at this. My truck will idle itself up to 5th gear no problems.

E90M3 > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 13:47

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I drove one of these once for a short distance, I was amazed that even though it was pulling about 90,000 lbs you didn’t even have to use the throttle to make it move, just let your foot off the clutch.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 14:03

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Most modern engine management systems (especially throttle-by-wire) will do all they can to prevent a stall, if the torque is available at or below “normal” idle RPM the ECU will keep feeding in air and fuel to keep the engine turning over until it maxes out the available torque at idle range. My FieSTa will go all the way from 1st to 4th with no gas pedal, but it has to be perfectly flat and it protests pretty hard if you try to grab 5th and 6th, though it *CAN* be done with enough clutch slippage. A diesel will obviously have even more torque available at idle and this behavior doesn’t surprise me at all.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 14:11

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If you’re gentle with the clutch, you can do this in nearly any car. I used to win idle drag races in my Tercel simply because five speeds. None of my auto-driving schoolmates understood that.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Nibbles 06/21/2016 at 14:12

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A 22R T E? Color me impressed.

Nibbles > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 06/21/2016 at 14:23

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Turbo, SR-5, manual, 2WD, LSD, loaded save A/C. I loved it, miss it dearly, and would buy another in a heartbeat.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Nibbles 06/21/2016 at 14:31

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Oh man, that’s beautiful. I saw an original Land Cruiser turbo the other day. The driver was very confused as I was excitedly waving and giving him thumbs up. I think he may have thought I was mocking his car instead of seriously fanboying the fuck out.

Cé hé sin > Steve in Manhattan 06/21/2016 at 14:49

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Nope, it’s a diesel. That’s what they do. My father’s diesel Focus will start on quite steep hills without the accelerator.

Steve in Manhattan > Cé hé sin 06/21/2016 at 14:53

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Hmmm - just the torque. Had an ‘84 Jetta Turbodiesel - never tried that.

Cé hé sin > Steve in Manhattan 06/21/2016 at 14:55

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Driving schools here often use diesels for that reason - easier for novice drivers to get going without stalling.

MGS315 > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 15:22

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My work Vauxhall Combo can do this fine. We’ve also had a Renault Traffic minibus (same vehicle as above) that was just as forgiving.

ED: Both Diesels.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Bandit - destroyed his car 06/21/2016 at 16:03

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I’ve done the same thing in my Focus in slow traffic... at least from 1st through 3rd gears. Probably could do that for 4th too. Probably not 5th.